'Everything Leads to Everything'

Across industries — whether sports, business, media, music, or literature — there’s something undeniably captivating about the pursuit of creating work and moments that endure. The ones who pour hours into sharpening their craft, often far from the spotlight, in this pursuit of excellence, mastery and transformational impact.

Even with a decorated career in film and television, pioneering the innovative vision of SlamBall, and the recent acquisition of the Grand Junction Jackalopes baseball club — an MLB Partner League team in the historic Pioneer Baseball League — alongside his son, Mike Tollin still carries a contagious, childlike wonder and curiosity. He leans into it with humility — eager to learn, to share, to teach, and to serve.

What becomes immediately clear in conversation with Tollin is his deep love for his hometown of Philly, storytelling, sports, history, and people. And what lingers most after listening to him speak isn’t just his timely insight or timeless experience — it’s how deeply kind, graceful, and open-hearted he is as a human being.

The Daily Coach continued its conversation with award-winning producer and director Mike Tollin about the art of negotiation, overcoming setbacks, and releasing our attachment to the work once it’s put into the world.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Part 1: 'Lean Into Your Heart: Let Your Passion Drive You'

…

Mike, thank you again for doing this. How do you approach high-stakes negotiations, and what principles guide you?

I like to lead with compassion. I want to know the person on the other side of the table. I want to understand what their primary agenda is and find a way to make sure they come out of it feeling like, if they didn’t win, at least they didn’t lose. We all know the expression “win-win”.  We made a show for HBO called Arli$$, 80 episodes over seven years. And even though it was a comedy — and we made fun of over-the-top kinds of negotiations — we always talked about the principles of effective negotiations. And it always came back to going for the win-win.

I heard a story once about a pro athlete whose agent got them the biggest contract ever in that sport. And the athlete was like, “Why’d you do that? I didn’t tell you to do that.” His concern was, “How does the team feel about the deal?  Are they resentful? Did we just make it harder for them to build a winner around me?” All of those kinds of considerations are legitimate.

I’ve found that the better you know the person — the more time you spend with them on a human level — the more likely you are to give them something that really matters to them, that you’re actually happy to give away. The human level changes the whole complexion of the negotiation. It goes to a higher level. And again, that compassion, that understanding of what’s in it for each of us — that really matters. Generally speaking, if you try hard enough, you can find a way for all of us to win.

Now, on a more pragmatic level — creating leverage is critical. It’s really important to have choices. Being able to walk away from the table — literally or figuratively - impacts your negotiating position dramatically.

How do you handle setbacks or roadblocks in your work—what helps you stay on course when things don’t go as planned?

Well, I always look at perseverance as arguably the most critical asset—whether for a producer or director or anybody who’s in a position of leadership. Things almost never come easy, and they always take more time than you could imagine.

So instead of talking about obstacles, I prefer to look at them as challenges. Oftentimes, the challenge makes you re-route. Like following the GPS in your car - you see the traffic, you make a turn, ignoring the GPS. And it says, “re-routing”, and now you’re further away from your destination. But you gotta stay strong and trust your instincts and know you’re going the right way and eventually will get where you’re going. Like the old saying, “that which doesn’t break you makes you stronger.”

Getting back to perseverance — having done this for so long, I’ve developed the perspective that “no” really means “maybe”.  My dad went to his grave not quite understanding what a producer does. The closest I ever came to having him grasp it was just explaining, “A producer turns no into yes.” He got that, liked that.  But along the way, there are a lot of “maybes”. A lot of “buts”.  And so many potholes!  So I think it becomes critical to check your passion, clarify your vision, making sure you’re doing the right thing for the right reason. Which includes making sure some of the obstacles aren’t self-generated, making sure your team is working in unison and presenting the best opportunity for success. And then—just staying the course.

There was a Commissioner of Major League Baseball who once had a plaque on his desk which read, “Not talent, not genius. Perseverance is the greatest attribute of all. That will win out in the end.”

What’s your attachment to the work once you put it out into the world?

Great question. I have an old, dear friend and longtime business partner named Gary Cohen. He and I came up with the idea that there are three ways to measure success on a project: critical success, commercial success, and success on a human, interpersonal level. First, how did critics respond; second, how did the project fare at the box office or in the ratings; and third, how was the process of making the film (or series)? Meaning, how did the people working on the project get along? Were we all on the same page, communicating constructively with a shared agenda? Are you creating relationships that will last beyond the project?  What we came to realize, of course, is that you only have control over the third one. So the trick is to put your focus on the human side of things.

That idea — "trust the process" (with all due respect to my Philadelphia 76ers, which we don’t really want to talk about right now!) — carried over into my next partnership with Brian Robbins. We had a wonderful 15-year run, made over a thousand hours of television and more than a dozen movies.

And what we came to realize during that time is that when you do your work in public, everyone has an opinion, everyone has a right to make a judgment. There are a thousand different criteria which people can use to decide whether something was a success or a failure. So ultimately, I came to this conclusion: the criterion that most matters — and is actually measurable — is the extent to which the project you just did makes it easier or harder for you to do what you want to do next.

For instance, when we made Good Burger, our first movie, it led directly to Varsity Blues. That opened doors to studio deals and led to a long, sustained run making feature films. So my motto is: Everything leads to everything. If you think about it, it’s kind of hard to argue with that.

If you could share a few lessons with your younger self, what would they be?

It’s great to accept the “unknowables” of life. My son and I love to talk about the Unsolved Mysteries of the Universe. He calls it, “embracing the cluelessness”- I love that.  And I’ve become a bit of a disciple of Ram Dass. His three-word mantra — Be Here Now — has always stuck with me. It’s easier said than done, with all of the distractions in our lives, but that idea of really being in the present moment is powerful.  And not being afraid to take a pause now and then to ponder, reflect, consider before responding. Don’t always hit “send” right away!

One thing that took me a long time to really grasp is the idea that vulnerability is invincibility. But if you sit with that, it starts to make sense.

Learning to listen to your heart, but also your head — and figuring out which one should take the lead in different situations. I’ve had partnerships my whole life — in both my personal and professional worlds. And I’ve come to realize that the beauty of a partnership is it makes the tough times a little less tough… and it makes the great times even greater.

It’s all a work in progress. And a long, wonderful journey. Hank Aaron once gave me his secret: “Be the tortoise, not the hare. Just stay in the race.”  And I am most grateful to still be in it!

…

Q&A Resources

Mike Tollin ― Mike Tollin Productions | MTP LinkedIn

…

Let us know what you think...

Did someone forward this to you? Subscribe for free here and get daily emails like this directly in your inbox.

Is there a story or theme you'd like to see The Daily Coach dive into this year? We'd love to hear your ideas here.